Comments on: Lost in Space http://www.plannedobsolescence.net/lost-in-space/ falling indelibly into the past Fri, 08 Aug 2008 18:49:56 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: KF http://www.plannedobsolescence.net/lost-in-space/#comment-2219 KF Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:42:08 +0000 http://www.new.plannedobsolescence.net/?p=907#comment-2219 <p>These are extremely helpful sources.  The Humanist thread reminds me, Francois, that much of this spatial thinking about what exists “inside” the networks begins (of course) with Gibson’s <i>Neuromancer</i>, which highlights an important aspect of what I imagine the new project being up to:  exploring the narratives (in the literary sense, but also in a larger sense that would include futurology and technocriticism) that shape our understanding of the world we live in now and its relationship to computer technologies.  <i>Neuromancer</i> literalizes that “shaping” effect, less in that Gibson predicted the future than in that technologists who built and described the networks we now use had Gibson’s images as a sort of unconscious substrate.  But even in Gibson we see that one of the results of understanding the world of the virtual as a “space” equivalent, if not superior, to the physical is a disdain for “meatspace” and the claims it makes on human lives. </p> <p> I’m not sure I’ve got any good answers for thinking about alternate metaphoric structures, though; I like the notion of the “rhizome,” Chuck, as it does convey connectivity, but I’m not sure how flexible it is as a framework.  The pervasiveness of the spatial metaphor comes in part from that flexibility, I think, in explaining our net-work as both located (at “sites") and mobile ("sites" that one “goes to").  The rhizome might give us a good sense of the net, but I’m not sure it helps us understand our work therein. </p> These are extremely helpful sources.  The Humanist thread reminds me, Francois, that much of this spatial thinking about what exists “inside” the networks begins (of course) with Gibson’s Neuromancer, which highlights an important aspect of what I imagine the new project being up to:  exploring the narratives (in the literary sense, but also in a larger sense that would include futurology and technocriticism) that shape our understanding of the world we live in now and its relationship to computer technologies.  Neuromancer literalizes that “shaping” effect, less in that Gibson predicted the future than in that technologists who built and described the networks we now use had Gibson’s images as a sort of unconscious substrate.  But even in Gibson we see that one of the results of understanding the world of the virtual as a “space” equivalent, if not superior, to the physical is a disdain for “meatspace” and the claims it makes on human lives.

I’m not sure I’ve got any good answers for thinking about alternate metaphoric structures, though; I like the notion of the “rhizome,” Chuck, as it does convey connectivity, but I’m not sure how flexible it is as a framework.  The pervasiveness of the spatial metaphor comes in part from that flexibility, I think, in explaining our net-work as both located (at “sites”) and mobile (”sites” that one “goes to”).  The rhizome might give us a good sense of the net, but I’m not sure it helps us understand our work therein.

]]> By: chuck http://www.plannedobsolescence.net/lost-in-space/#comment-2218 chuck Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:17:10 +0000 http://www.new.plannedobsolescence.net/?p=907#comment-2218 <p>Really interesting questions and thanks for the Kirby reference--I’m interested in cinematic constructions of time and space, especially as they brush up against the electronic/digital.  I’m having a hard time imagining an alternative to the spatial metaphors.  My immediate response is to try and think through time, but maybe neither measure is adequate to describing the electronic. </p> <p> I was struck by the oddly recuperative metaphor of “the corner bar” that Rheingold uses to describe the WELL.  I realize that one of Rheingold’s goals may be to make the unfamiliar feel safe.  As I write, the one potentially non-spatial metaphor that I can think of is the rhizome.  There is connectivity, but I don’t *think* it necessarily relies on spatial metaphors, but that might just be my second cup of coffee kicking in. </p> Really interesting questions and thanks for the Kirby reference–I’m interested in cinematic constructions of time and space, especially as they brush up against the electronic/digital.  I’m having a hard time imagining an alternative to the spatial metaphors.  My immediate response is to try and think through time, but maybe neither measure is adequate to describing the electronic.

I was struck by the oddly recuperative metaphor of “the corner bar” that Rheingold uses to describe the WELL.  I realize that one of Rheingold’s goals may be to make the unfamiliar feel safe.  As I write, the one potentially non-spatial metaphor that I can think of is the rhizome.  There is connectivity, but I don’t *think* it necessarily relies on spatial metaphors, but that might just be my second cup of coffee kicking in.

]]> By: Francois Lachance http://www.plannedobsolescence.net/lost-in-space/#comment-2217 Francois Lachance Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:17:59 +0000 http://www.new.plannedobsolescence.net/?p=907#comment-2217 <p>Matt’s reference is probably the best place to start since it crops up several times in a search of “cyberspace thom morphogenesis”.  Rene Thom is the mathematician whose topological investigations have been taken up by such theorists as Jean Petitot and applied to semiotic processes. It is the mathematical construct of “phase space” that I had in mind when I suggested that one way of approaching and representing the dynamic nature of networks. </p> <p> I tend not to draw a sharp dichotomy between the virtual and the physical. In part, this is due to adopting a general systems framework. I like to think of the Internet as a subset of Cyberspace (and the WWW as a subset of the Internet.) Cyberspace would include Interactive Voice Response system, cell phone systems, automated video monitoring. Within such a framework the question of synchronization becomes crucial. What happens if the spatial representation of network activity is refocussed as a representation of the “state of the system”—I think what emerges is a representation of a holding pattern (and the potential for it not to hold). Thom’s work in catastrophe theory and his exploration of strange attractors are to me the place to look for representations of dynamical systems—especially networks where relays, nodes and traffic patterns can shift [neat to be able to map meterological data with network traffic data :)] </p> <p> Not sure if the above helps. However you may be interested in a thread on the Poetics of Cyberspace pursued on Humanist in 2000 <br /> <a href="http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/Humanist/v14/0146.html" rel="nofollow">http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/Humanist/v14/0146.html</a> </p> Matt’s reference is probably the best place to start since it crops up several times in a search of “cyberspace thom morphogenesis”.  Rene Thom is the mathematician whose topological investigations have been taken up by such theorists as Jean Petitot and applied to semiotic processes. It is the mathematical construct of “phase space” that I had in mind when I suggested that one way of approaching and representing the dynamic nature of networks.

I tend not to draw a sharp dichotomy between the virtual and the physical. In part, this is due to adopting a general systems framework. I like to think of the Internet as a subset of Cyberspace (and the WWW as a subset of the Internet.) Cyberspace would include Interactive Voice Response system, cell phone systems, automated video monitoring. Within such a framework the question of synchronization becomes crucial. What happens if the spatial representation of network activity is refocussed as a representation of the “state of the system”—I think what emerges is a representation of a holding pattern (and the potential for it not to hold). Thom’s work in catastrophe theory and his exploration of strange attractors are to me the place to look for representations of dynamical systems—especially networks where relays, nodes and traffic patterns can shift [neat to be able to map meterological data with network traffic data :)]

Not sure if the above helps. However you may be interested in a thread on the Poetics of Cyberspace pursued on Humanist in 2000

http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/Humanist/v14/0146.html

]]> By: Matt K. http://www.plannedobsolescence.net/lost-in-space/#comment-2216 Matt K. Tue, 15 Jul 2003 03:18:14 +0000 http://www.new.plannedobsolescence.net/?p=907#comment-2216 <p>His name’s actually spelled Markley. My bad. </p> His name’s actually spelled Markley. My bad.

]]> By: KF http://www.plannedobsolescence.net/lost-in-space/#comment-2215 KF Mon, 14 Jul 2003 19:30:45 +0000 http://www.new.plannedobsolescence.net/?p=907#comment-2215 <p>See what happens when I don’t preview?  Last comment was a response to Francois. </p> <p> Matt—thanks for the reference.  I’m not familiar with Markeley’s work, but it sounds like what I need to see. </p> See what happens when I don’t preview?  Last comment was a response to Francois.

Matt—thanks for the reference.  I’m not familiar with Markeley’s work, but it sounds like what I need to see.

]]> By: KF http://www.plannedobsolescence.net/lost-in-space/#comment-2214 KF Mon, 14 Jul 2003 19:28:58 +0000 http://www.new.plannedobsolescence.net/?p=907#comment-2214 <p>Quite possibly, as it sounds like such a visualization would move outside virtual “space” to resituate the network in its physical surroundings.  Do you know of such a resource? </p> Quite possibly, as it sounds like such a visualization would move outside virtual “space” to resituate the network in its physical surroundings.  Do you know of such a resource?

]]> By: Matt K. http://www.plannedobsolescence.net/lost-in-space/#comment-2213 Matt K. Mon, 14 Jul 2003 19:28:56 +0000 http://www.new.plannedobsolescence.net/?p=907#comment-2213 <p>"I’m left with a few questions, though: is there a way that we can conceive of “cyberspace” without resorting to the spatial?” </p> <p> I’d recommend Robert Markeley’s paper on “The Metaphysics of Cyberspace” in his _VR and its Discontents_ collection (JHUP, late 1990s). It’s a look at boundary mathematics, the math behind network topology. </p> “I’m left with a few questions, though: is there a way that we can conceive of “cyberspace” without resorting to the spatial?”

I’d recommend Robert Markeley’s paper on “The Metaphysics of Cyberspace” in his _VR and its Discontents_ collection (JHUP, late 1990s). It’s a look at boundary mathematics, the math behind network topology.

]]> By: Francois Lachance http://www.plannedobsolescence.net/lost-in-space/#comment-2212 Francois Lachance Mon, 14 Jul 2003 19:03:16 +0000 http://www.new.plannedobsolescence.net/?p=907#comment-2212 <p>Would a visualization of rates of activity correlated to time zones count as a different form of spatialization of the networks? </p> Would a visualization of rates of activity correlated to time zones count as a different form of spatialization of the networks?

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